Bug 12059 - kg_*: new kikongo locales
Summary: kg_*: new kikongo locales
Status: WAITING
Alias: None
Product: glibc
Classification: Unclassified
Component: localedata (show other bugs)
Version: unspecified
: P1 enhancement
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: GNU C Library Locale Maintainers
URL:
Keywords:
: 12060 12061 12062 12063 12064 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2010-09-27 12:50 IST by Kibavuidi Nsiangani
Modified: 2016-02-19 07:48 IST (History)
2 users (show)

See Also:
Host:
Target:
Build:
Last reconfirmed:
fweimer: security-


Attachments
locale for kikongo language (Angola) (1.53 KB, application/octet-stream)
2010-09-28 04:48 IST, Kibavuidi Nsiangani
Details
locale for kikongo language (Congo) (1.52 KB, application/octet-stream)
2010-09-28 04:49 IST, Kibavuidi Nsiangani
Details
locale for kikongo language (Dem Rep Congo) (1.52 KB, application/octet-stream)
2010-09-28 04:50 IST, Kibavuidi Nsiangani
Details
locale for kikongo language (Angola) (1.52 KB, application/octet-stream)
2010-09-28 05:41 IST, Kibavuidi Nsiangani
Details
locale for kikongo language (Dem Rep Congo) (1.51 KB, application/octet-stream)
2010-09-28 05:42 IST, Kibavuidi Nsiangani
Details
locale for kikongo language ( Rep Congo) (1.51 KB, application/octet-stream)
2010-09-28 05:43 IST, Kibavuidi Nsiangani
Details
Kikongo written in Mandombe font, here in abiword 2.8 translated in kikongo. (68.97 KB, image/png)
2010-09-28 05:51 IST, Kibavuidi Nsiangani
Details
locale for kikongo language (Angola) (1.51 KB, text/plain)
2010-09-28 06:26 IST, Kibavuidi Nsiangani
Details
locale for kikongo language (Dem Rep Congo) (1.50 KB, text/plain)
2010-09-28 06:27 IST, Kibavuidi Nsiangani
Details
locale for kikongo language (Congo) (1.50 KB, text/plain)
2010-09-28 06:27 IST, Kibavuidi Nsiangani
Details

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Description Kibavuidi Nsiangani 2010-09-28 04:48:25 IST
Created attachment 5007 [details]
locale for kikongo language (Angola)

locale for kikongo language (Angola)
Comment 1 Kibavuidi Nsiangani 2010-09-28 04:49:18 IST
Created attachment 5008 [details]
locale for kikongo language (Congo)

locale for kikongo language (Congo)
Comment 2 Kibavuidi Nsiangani 2010-09-28 04:50:05 IST
Created attachment 5009 [details]
locale for kikongo language (Dem Rep Congo)

locale for kikongo language (Dem Rep Congo)
Comment 3 Kibavuidi Nsiangani 2010-09-28 05:41:19 IST
Created attachment 5010 [details]
locale for kikongo language (Angola)

Corrected locale for kikongo language (Angola)
Comment 4 Kibavuidi Nsiangani 2010-09-28 05:42:31 IST
Created attachment 5011 [details]
locale for kikongo language (Dem Rep Congo)

Corrected locale for kikongo language (Congo)
Comment 5 Kibavuidi Nsiangani 2010-09-28 05:43:08 IST
Created attachment 5012 [details]
locale for kikongo language ( Rep Congo)

Corrected locale for kikongo language (Dem Rep Congo)
Comment 6 Kibavuidi Nsiangani 2010-09-28 05:46:53 IST
Corrected errors in the old files.
Some words may seem strange (capital letters in the middle of a word), actually 
this is normal, since the font used to write in Kikongo uses tonal characters 
where capital letters are used here and has no capital letters itself (which is 
why the tonal characters were mapped with the unicode values of the capital 
letters.
Also attached a preview of what the correct font looks like.
Comment 7 Kibavuidi Nsiangani 2010-09-28 05:51:39 IST
Created attachment 5013 [details]
Kikongo written in Mandombe font, here in abiword 2.8 translated in kikongo.

A preview of Kikongo written with the Mandombe font.
Comment 8 Kibavuidi Nsiangani 2010-09-28 06:26:51 IST
Created attachment 5014 [details]
locale for kikongo language (Angola)
Comment 9 Kibavuidi Nsiangani 2010-09-28 06:27:14 IST
Created attachment 5015 [details]
locale for kikongo language (Dem Rep Congo)
Comment 10 Kibavuidi Nsiangani 2010-09-28 06:27:35 IST
Created attachment 5016 [details]
locale for kikongo language (Congo)
Comment 11 Kibavuidi Nsiangani 2010-09-28 06:29:24 IST
Dear maintainers,

Please find attached the locale definitions for Kikongo: kg_CD (Dem Rep of 
Congo), kg_CG (Rep of Congo), kg_AO (Angola) to be considered for inclusion in 
glibc.

Thanks!
Comment 12 Kibavuidi Nsiangani 2010-09-28 06:30:06 IST
Dear maintainers,

Please find attached the locale definitions for Kikongo: kg_CD (Dem Rep of 
Congo), kg_CG (Rep of Congo), kg_AO (Angola) to be considered for inclusion in 
glibc.

Thanks!
Comment 13 Kibavuidi Nsiangani 2010-09-28 06:30:59 IST
Dear maintainers,

Please find attached the locale definitions for Kikongo: kg_CD (Dem Rep of 
Congo), kg_CG (Rep of Congo), kg_AO (Angola) to be considered for inclusion in 
glibc.

Thanks!
Comment 14 Mike Frysinger 2010-10-01 00:11:22 IST
*** Bug 12060 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 15 Mike Frysinger 2010-10-01 00:11:34 IST
*** Bug 12061 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 16 Mike Frysinger 2010-10-01 00:11:39 IST
*** Bug 12062 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 17 Mike Frysinger 2010-10-01 00:11:44 IST
*** Bug 12063 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 18 Mike Frysinger 2010-10-01 00:11:50 IST
*** Bug 12064 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 19 Denis Jacquerye 2010-12-04 15:29:15 IST
Kibavuidi Nsiangani shouldn't these locales be in Latin script?
Kikongo is primarily written in Latin script as in http://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/plain/po/kg.po for example.

I doubt a locale with a font specific encoding for Mandombe script will be included.
Comment 20 Kibavuidi Nsiangani 2010-12-04 17:49:12 IST
Well, Kikongo is not written anymor at all as of today, I mean by that:
there is no software or OS in Kikongo as of today.
The link you posted was my work. I first thought it better to write translations using the latin script but have since reencoded the translations to work with Mandombe script.
Mainly because the most of the people (I'm talking about schools and universities) willing to make use of an operating system in Kikongo are willing to learn Mandombe to do so.
Actually, latin script is not always seen as the "absolute best choice" by everyone and is, one of the main reasons there is so little written exchange/publications in Kikongo today.
Even the work to create diacritic marks and special glyphs for Kikongo didn't have that much success and isn't that good either:
it would mean 1 font+keyboard+charset per language (lingala, tshiluba, kikongo, swahili etc), whereas Mandombe supports all of them, included western and asian languages with no adaptation.
Seems much more useful to add support for Mandombe.
Last but not least, the mandombe encoding also supports using the latin characters so I don't see where there might be a problem here.
Comment 21 Denis Jacquerye 2010-12-04 18:35:25 IST
(In reply to comment #20)
> Well, Kikongo is not written anymor at all as of today, I mean by that:
> there is no software or OS in Kikongo as of today.
> The link you posted was my work. I first thought it better to write
> translations using the latin script but have since reencoded the translations
> to work with Mandombe script.
> Mainly because the most of the people (I'm talking about schools and
> universities) willing to make use of an operating system in Kikongo are willing
> to learn Mandombe to do so.
> Actually, latin script is not always seen as the "absolute best choice" by
> everyone and is, one of the main reasons there is so little written
> exchange/publications in Kikongo today.
> Even the work to create diacritic marks and special glyphs for Kikongo didn't
> have that much success and isn't that good either:
> it would mean 1 font+keyboard+charset per language (lingala, tshiluba, kikongo,
> swahili etc), whereas Mandombe supports all of them, included western and asian
> languages with no adaptation.
> Seems much more useful to add support for Mandombe.
> Last but not least, the mandombe encoding also supports using the latin
> characters so I don't see where there might be a problem here.

I've designed a keyboard for the Congolese languages you mention. The Latin script is a valid choice for those languages. There are technical difficulties but they are not impossible to solve.

In any case, the point I was making was that they text you use in the proposed locales has problems.
1. It's written for your Mandombe encoding, and your Mandombe font.
2. Even if readable when the right Unicode characters are displayed in Latin, the spelling doesn't follow existing writting traditions, nor recommendations of the CELTA of DRC, the RC equivalent or that from Angola.
Comment 22 Kibavuidi Nsiangani 2010-12-04 18:52:43 IST
Actually, it is not "my" encoding or "my" font. These are going to be used in schools in Bas-Congo as soon as early 2011 where teaching in Mandombe/Kikongo is going to be tested.
About the latin script being a valid choice, this is not what I am addressing in the first place. I said that it was not the best choice, not that it was not a valid one, which would still VERY be arguable.
It is a good thing that you built a keyboard and font for these, really. But I still don't see where the problem is.
Furthermore, it is just your opinion, which for the matter is not shared by the users of the operating system to come, so it really doesn't make sense for me to be engaging in such a futile argument.
As far as the written tradition you are talking about, I really don't know what you are refering to exactly. For DRC, there are at least 3 or 4 of those so called "writting traditions", mostly used by a few individuals.
Finally, if you need a locale for latin script, there's no problem, just say so. There is no need to start pointless arguments about latin script vs mandombe script.
What really matters is the end user, in other words the real people who are going to use it, right? And since the first to ask for this work are Mandombe users and future users, these locales reflect this.
Comment 23 Denis Jacquerye 2010-12-05 10:29:38 IST
(In reply to comment #22)
> Actually, it is not "my" encoding or "my" font. These are going to be used in
> schools in Bas-Congo as soon as early 2011 where teaching in Mandombe/Kikongo
> is going to be tested.
> About the latin script being a valid choice, this is not what I am addressing
> in the first place. I said that it was not the best choice, not that it was not
> a valid one, which would still VERY be arguable.
> It is a good thing that you built a keyboard and font for these, really. But I
> still don't see where the problem is.
> Furthermore, it is just your opinion, which for the matter is not shared by the
> users of the operating system to come, so it really doesn't make sense for me
> to be engaging in such a futile argument.
> As far as the written tradition you are talking about, I really don't know what
> you are refering to exactly. For DRC, there are at least 3 or 4 of those so
> called "writting traditions", mostly used by a few individuals.
> Finally, if you need a locale for latin script, there's no problem, just say
> so. There is no need to start pointless arguments about latin script vs
> mandombe script.
> What really matters is the end user, in other words the real people who are
> going to use it, right? And since the first to ask for this work are Mandombe
> users and future users, these locales reflect this.

I did not start an argument about Mandombe vs Latin script, you did!

Kikongo is written in Latin script and in Mandombe, of course there should be locales for both writing systems. I never critized Mandombe in anyway! I have a Mandombe book myself.

Please don't mix me with people who are against Mandombe, and don't mix Mandombe and Latin script in a single locale.
Comment 24 Kibavuidi Nsiangani 2010-12-05 10:40:37 IST
(In reply to comment #23)
> (In reply to comment #22)
> > Actually, it is not "my" encoding or "my" font. These are going to be used in
> > schools in Bas-Congo as soon as early 2011 where teaching in Mandombe/Kikongo
> > is going to be tested.
> > About the latin script being a valid choice, this is not what I am addressing
> > in the first place. I said that it was not the best choice, not that it was not
> > a valid one, which would still VERY be arguable.
> > It is a good thing that you built a keyboard and font for these, really. But I
> > still don't see where the problem is.
> > Furthermore, it is just your opinion, which for the matter is not shared by the
> > users of the operating system to come, so it really doesn't make sense for me
> > to be engaging in such a futile argument.
> > As far as the written tradition you are talking about, I really don't know what
> > you are refering to exactly. For DRC, there are at least 3 or 4 of those so
> > called "writting traditions", mostly used by a few individuals.
> > Finally, if you need a locale for latin script, there's no problem, just say
> > so. There is no need to start pointless arguments about latin script vs
> > mandombe script.
> > What really matters is the end user, in other words the real people who are
> > going to use it, right? And since the first to ask for this work are Mandombe
> > users and future users, these locales reflect this.
> 
> I did not start an argument about Mandombe vs Latin script, you did!
> 
> Kikongo is written in Latin script and in Mandombe, of course there should be
> locales for both writing systems. I never critized Mandombe in anyway! I have a
> Mandombe book myself.
> 
> Please don't mix me with people who are against Mandombe, and don't mix
> Mandombe and Latin script in a single locale.

Well you said:


"""""""""""Kibavuidi Nsiangani shouldn't these locales be in Latin script?
Kikongo is primarily written in Latin script as in
http://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk+/plain/po/kg.po for example.

I doubt a locale with a font specific encoding for Mandombe script will be
included.""""""""""
Whereas you could have said, for instance:
Shouldn't there be latin versions of these locales too? 
And I didn't say you were criticizing Mandombe at all. I was just saying that I didn't see anything wrong with the inclusion of these locales.
Comment 25 Ulrich Drepper 2011-05-09 22:55:22 IST
What is the conclusion here?

If the attached files are what is wanted there is more unification to do.  The actual data should be in one file and the others, if possible, should use copy.