[ECOS] Re: Switching to using git on eCosForge

Sergei Gavrikov sergei.gavrikov@gmail.com
Mon Sep 21 22:08:00 GMT 2009


On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 03:39:09PM +0100, Alex Schuilenburg wrote:
> [Apologies to sergei for repost - grrr]
> 
> Sergei Organov wrote on 2009-09-21 14:05:
> > Alex Schuilenburg <alexs@ecoscentric.com> writes:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> >   
> >> Both bazaar and mercurial were a lot easier to learn and work with
> >> than git. git's Windows support is also limited and is mostly
> >> restricted to the 100's of cmd apps which make up git under cygwin.
> >>     
> >
> > Once again, I'm not a Windows user, but is this really true nowadays?
> >
> > E.g., what about this one:
> >
> > <http://code.google.com/p/tortoisegit/>
> >
> > Isn't it good enough for Windows users?
> >   
> and hg has TortoiseHG <http://tortoisehg.sourceforge.net/>
> (http://tortoisehg.sourceforge.net/).  Like I said, feature comparison
> between git and hg is pretty much on a par...
> 
> Lack of windows support/integration is not my main argument against git
> FWIW.
> 
> My main argument against git is it has a very steep initial learning
> curve, and from experience you can hang yourself if you do not know what
> you are doing.  (Yes, there are rollbacks, etc, but sometimes it is a
> while down the line before you realise you did something wrong). You
> really don't want to force new users on an additional learning curve. 
> There are 100's of commands to remember, whereas both bzr and hg have one.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Excuse, please, my thougths the below. Any *nix CLI environment has
something like the above :-) BUT, with those 100's {text,file}utils
someone is able to do everything (even make world), but, today, *nix
does not make him/her use those 100's. If somebody wants, he/she may
use only `cp' and `mv' + $EDITOR, like `Explorer' + ... well, lets
that will be `Notepad' to make things spin, if he/she wants, they can
use only IDE likes Eclipse to do everything like it he/she did in
Visual Studio.  The most modern IDEs have all VCS modules/plugins,
e.g. Komodo (Git, CVS, Perforce, Bazaar, Mercurial, etc.) and, BTW,
Eclipse has Git plugin, etc.  I'm not Git user, but I think it is
possible to overlap those 100's by N*100 clicks in IDE, if anyone
wants that, they do it for them! I do not belive that maintainers will
suggest then, Use IDE 'A' and do not use IDE 'B' for development with
eCos.

Just now I entered in search box 'CVS refcard', I download it and open
the card. 100's commands? No, there are not. It seems there are a lot
of options. How many CVS options we use(d) every day? I think what
_any_ VC's (git is not exception) _every_day_in_use_ refcard will be
that A4 sheet or half it. Thin things for CLI fans, so, they may `make
world', IMO, others use A4 sheet and it will be enougth, it seems for
me those IDEs implement (A4 on both sides) in GUI and that's enough.

A thougth what Git == 100's CLI is the same myth likes *nix is life
with ksh.

Another issue. Do you really expect to find in a future any
assistances here with _any_ VCS+GUI like the below, for example:

- What IDE do you use?
- Bla-bla-bla
- Hm, that does not like any Tortoise. Test a moment, please... Well,
  Click there, expand that node, turn on that switch, then click [Ok]
- What dialog are you seeing now?
- ...

I guess that this will be type then in the list, e.g., invoke

$ {git,hg,bzr,svn} [option] <command>

or

read, please, for start: ecos.sourceware.org/anyvcs.html and follow
the ref links there for a far reading.

Why I think so? It's the real world. I did not meet here a lot
assistance with configtool, for example, (BTW, CT is official GUI
configuration tool for eCos), n.b. just get the suggests here to
import some CDL options with ecosconfig. This is the real world.

It seems for me that we try to decrease troubles for windows users
because they have it enough, but, unfortunately, they is/will be in
trouble with 10's CLI commands (hg, bzr) as well as with the 100's
CLI commands (git). Of course, if they will be use CLI and not any
Tortoise*. I say 'trouble' == 'remember' :-)

> Also, while documentation is improving (http://book.git-scm.com/), it is
> not as good or complete as mercurial (http://hgbook.red-bean.com/read/)
> in terms of non-power users.  Both have books in print available from
> places like Amazon.
> For example, I started my evaluation with bzr, then hg then git. bzr and
> hg were a lot easiest to pick up and start using than git.  I also have
> done most of my eval on Linux, dropping back to Windows to see how easy
> it was to use and integrate graphical diff tools, etc.

Today I'm mercurial user (my way was from lanchpad (bzr) to bitbucket
(hg), but I have not tried github yet :-) and it was happy that I'm
CLI user. In those days when I read Bryan O'Sullivan HG book I
observed a lot of examples like the below

echo a>a
echo b>b
hg ci -A -m 'add a,b'
echo c>>a
hg diff

AFAIR, HG book in those days was 99.9% of CLI examples. It seems I
must re-read new revision... What a nice thing to get $40.00 from
every reader which could only see in his prev life:

C:\>

Unfortunately, in fact, it is not possible to give a full power for
windows users without CLI, even with very friendly VCS, because, even
eCos on Windows, in fact, it is CLI (Cygwin + GNU). In any case, then
windows users hear here new words: objcopy, readelf, strip, size, etc.
very often. So, what world will be added then (git, hg, bzr), it's no
matter.

Sergei

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