Cygwin: Open or Closed System? (was: two problems with cygwin's zip)
Fred T. Hamster
Wed Jun 27 08:09:00 GMT 2001
Christopher Faylor wrote:
> I'm glad that you could use cygwin without understanding the motivation
> behind its existence. I don't think that this should either be a
> bragging point or an argument in favor of changing the way that we've
> been doing things.
i'm really sad that the tone of the cygwin mailing list seems to be
"users come here to be beaten". blunt tools arguments aside, i can't
see the above as much beyond an insult. insults don't prove points either.
i for one cannot accept the rationale being promulgated that a system
for unix emulation on win32 should be ignorant of the native platform's
path specification, when calling into the environment from windows is
clearly a desirable capability. to me, that rationale seems to
drastically underrate how useful better handling of wildcards in the
presence of backslashes would be. i am beginning to see how my
standpoint could be confused with a lack of understanding of the
rationale behind cygwin... i don't pretend to know the real motivation
at work in the language above, but if a "hack and slash" style of
response is a habitual refuge for questions potentially indicating
fundamental issues, then the chance for real dialogue in the list is
pretty well hindered. i apologize if i'm just making up that
interpretation of your tone. but just because i don't agree with this
aspect of cygwin does not in turn mean it's appropriate that abuse shall
be heaped upon me.
> I will grant you that the documentation is not clear. Hopefully we'll fix
> that soon so that further people will not be confused.
so the "expectations as a windows programmer" are going to be reduced
such that there is no expectation of wildcard support? this is quite a
bummer to me. but i guess it might help to reduce the expectations of
people for what cygwin can do.
> Until then, I've told you in several email messages how cygwin is
> supposed to operate.
> I have mentioned that it is not feasible to port every single package to
> work with MS-DOS pathnames.
> I really don't know why you don't understand this.
> Or, rather, I don't know what you expect to happen. Are you expecting
> that the volunteers who contribute to the project will drop everything and
> work on zip?
i don't see how you read those expectations into my comments. and in
previous emails, i have honed down the exact issue that i am talking
about; perhaps that focus is appearing to you as a lack of understanding
instead. currently, my main interest is in seeing if there is a project
wide improvement in interoperability possible by modifying glob(). i
have made a sincere offer to look into this, but the language i hear
(from the list at large) about the possible acceptance of that future
patch wavers between "go for it" and "no bleating way". in the face of
this uncertainty, my desire to contribute is gradually chiselled away.
but your last comments that you would consider such patches give me
heart again, and i will endeavor to maintain my interest in this.
> Or, if you are going to wait until later in the summer before you
> actually look into anything, then that's fine. Let's just stop arguing
> about semantics. I will trump you every time. I can do that. I'm
> a closed system.
semantics is meaning. meaning is important.
i personally don't believe that might makes right... in a truly
collaborative project, there is no single voice that can shout all the
others down. i don't want to say that's what you're doing, although it
did feel somewhat that way to me at times. but this could easily be my
misconstruing of the real spirit behind the words.
i'm satisfied for now that the polarization against win32 wildcards is
such that only a patch which can be analyzed would even have a chance of
changing any opinions. expect that the issue may re-arise and include
some code for consideration in a month or two.
_____ chosen by the Nechung Oracle Program [ http://www.gruntose.com/ ] _____
Why don't sheep shrink when it rains?
_____________ not necessarily my opinions, not necessarily not. _____________
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