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Re: Propose requiring Python 3.4 or later for building glibc.
- From: Helmut Grohne <helmut at subdivi dot de>
- To: debian-glibc at lists dot debian dot org
- Cc: Carlos O'Donell <carlos at redhat dot com>, GNU C Library <libc-alpha at sourceware dot org>, "Dmitry V. Levin" <ldv at altlinux dot org>, Allan McRae <allan at archlinux dot org>, Siddhesh Poyarekar <siddhesh at gotplt dot org>, Florian Weimer <fweimer at redhat dot com>, "Andreas K. Huettel" <dilfridge at gentoo dot org>, Sergei Trofimovich <slyfox at gentoo dot org>, Khem Raj <raj dot khem at gmail dot com>, Andreas Schwab <schwab at suse dot de>, Adam Conrad <adconrad at ubuntu dot com>, Tulio Magno Quites Machado Filho <tuliom at linux dot vnet dot ibm dot com>, "Joseph S. Myers" <joseph at codesourcery dot com>, Jeff Law <law at redhat dot com>, Daniel Schepler <schepler at debian dot org>
- Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2018 16:15:26 +0200
- Subject: Re: Propose requiring Python 3.4 or later for building glibc.
- References: <258837a9-50bf-d2b3-950a-c28e5b411e8f@redhat.com> <20181022095125.GA15764@aurel32.net>
On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 11:51:25AM +0200, Aurelien Jarno wrote:
> On 2018-10-19 09:47, Carlos O'Donell wrote:
> > This proposal is to being circulated to all the distribution
> > maintainers to gain their acceptance surrounding the use of
> > python 3.4 or greater for building glibc.
> >
> > There has been concern expressed that requiring python 3.4
> > or greater for the bootstrap process will add an additional
> > tool the the bootstrap, and specifically a tool that may not
> > be available on older distributions.
> >
> > Python is already mostly available for distributions because
> > of the integration into key OS components. Python can be
> > built on older distributions, and on older distributions you
> > already have to build a lot of things to compile glibc (like
> > a newer gcc, and binutils).
> >
> > The question today is:
> >
> > * Is it OK to require python 3.4 or later to build glibc?
>
> [...]
>
> > Aurelian,
> >
> > Any input from Debian?
>
> From the Debian side, the version 3.4 is not an issue at all. The
> default Python 3 version in unstable (which is relevant for future
> versions of glibc) is already 3.6.
>
> We also need to consider the process of bootstrapping Debian. In that
> case I believe it should also be fine as Python 3 from the host system
> can be used. I have added Helmut Grohne in Cc: who is much more aware
> of the bootstrapping process than me, and can confirm or infirm that.
I fear we need more precision here. There are multiple ways to bootstrap
Debian. There is "cross bootstrap" for jumping from one Debian
architecture to another, which is what I work on. As long as glibc only
needs to run the build architecture Python, I see no problems here. I
assume that you are not trying to integrate with the host architecture
Python as that would pose interesting problems. Given that Debian's
cross bootstraps are version locked, I don't see problems with requiring
recent versions either. In contrast, I'd love to be able to use Python 3
in Debian's glibc packaging. Also note that Debian's linux packaging
already requires Python 3 (for the build architecture) for quite a while
already.
>From a Debian cross bootstrap pov, no problems are to be expected.
Daniel Schepler is working on a native bootstrap approach. As far as I
understand, he natively bootstraps Debian from non-Debian (same
processor architecure and kernel). I expect that his work will be
impacted by the proposed change. I've added him to Cc to let him speak
up.
Requiring Python modules or extensions is another question. Some modules
(e.g. six) are easy, but ones with dependencies of their own tend to not
be. That's rooted in the way Debian handles cross architecture
dependencies unfortunately.
Thank you for reaching out in advance of the change and for relaying the
message to non-subscribers.
Helmut