Re: Ukrainian locale

[Petter Reinholdtsen <pere at hungry dot com>]

[Volodymyr M. Lisivka]
> Fine, but I am change my employer and _very_ busy now, sorry.

OK.  I'm in no hurry to get the locale included in glibc, so we can
continue when you have more time.

> Please talk with Leon Kanter (<leon@blackcatlinux.com>) or with
> Valentyn Solomko (<vesna@sammit.kiev.ua>) about new Ukrainian
> locale.

Perhaps they can answer my questions.  I hope so.

> I put all what I knew into locale file.
> I has not free time now to find required information, sorry.

OK.  I hope the included documentation is enough to convince the glibc
maintainers.

>> Did you try to contact the author of the initial locale?  Does he
>> agree with your changes?
> No. He has bad knowledge of Ukrainian alphabet.  He is not a member
> of UALUG.

Well, it is easier for the glibc maintainers to accept changes if the
previous author agrees to them.  We have no way to know who is most
credible in locale issues.  Luckily for you, Denis V. Dmitrienko did
agree to your changes.

>> It would be better if your proposed locale was easier to compare to
>> the original locale.  This mean it would be better if the new
>> locale used the same section order, to make it easier to look at
>> the diff between the locales.

> You can use output of `locale -ck SECTION_NAME` before and after
> instalation of new Ukrainian locale. Sorry, but I write new locale
> from scratch.

Sure I can, but I would rather leave that work to someone motivated to
work on the Ukrainian locale.  The change I suggest is to move
LC_MESSAGES before LC_MONETARY, and LC_MEASUREMENT before LC_NAME, to
match the order of the current glibc locale.

> Thanks. How I can operate with gnats (update PR's, at example)?

I do not think that is possible.  At least, I've been unable to send
emails into gnats.  I've since got an gnats account, so I can update
it that way, but mere mortals are unable to do this. :(

> Few addtional comments about locale:
> 
>   I write it with ISO/IEC 14652:2002(E) in hands and found few
> viloations of this standard in glibc 2.2.5 and 2.3.2.
> 
>   - week directive does not work properly;
>   - %n and %l escape sequence not supported in postal_fmt;

Interesting.  Someone should probably fix this.  Please submit a
problem report on this to the gnats database.

Regarding your comments on the content of the sections, I am not sure
if the glibc maintainers will accept changes where the only reference
is "I am sure".  Hopefully the glibc maintainer Ulrich can comment on
this.

There is also a licensing issue.  Your locale contains the following
copyright comment:

  % Copyright (C) 2003 Volodymyr M. Lisivka <v_lisivka@sourceforge.net>
  %
  % Distribution and use is free, also for commercial purposes
  % if this copyright notice are preserved.

I am not sure if this is compatible with the GNU GPL.  Did you intend
it to be?  It might also be required for you to sigh some legal
paperwork to assign the copyright over to the Free Software Fundation.
Is this OK with you?

Then some comments on the locale itself.

 - I've been told by the glibc maintainers that the <U#> notation
   should be used for ASCII values as well as non-ASCII values.  The
   locale uses ASCII texts several places.  This should probably be
   changed.

 - The glibc locales seem to contain some information in comments at
   the top of the file.  Your file is missing these.  The included
   patch adds these headers.

 - I believe the full name of the language and region should be used
   in LC_IDENTIFICATION.  Your locale uses the codes.  This patch
   changes this.

 - The category in LC_IDENTIFICATION should probably use uk_UA instead
   of il18n to match the other locales in glibc.  This patch fixes it.

 - Why do you use posix:1993 for LC_NUMERIC?

 - The locale uses your sourceforge address.  I do not think it is
   working.  

 - Please use the same category order as the current locale, to make
   it easier to compare using 'diff'.  This patch fixes it.

--- uk_UA.new	Sun Jun 15 12:59:10 2003
+++ uk_UA	Sun Jun 15 13:15:42 2003
@@ -3,6 +3,18 @@
 %
 % Copyright (C) 2003 Volodymyr M. Lisivka <v_lisivka@sourceforge.net>
 %
+% Ukrainian Language Locale for Ukraine
+% Source: Unknown
+% Contact: Volodymyr M. Lisivka
+% Email: lvm@mystery.lviv.net
+% Language: uk
+% Territory: UA
+% Revision: 2.1.1
+% Date: 2003-05-20
+% Application: general
+% Users: general
+% Charset: KOI8-U
+%
 % Distribution and use is free, also for commercial purposes
 % if this copyright notice are preserved.
 
@@ -15,21 +27,21 @@
 %Organization postal address.
 address    ""
 %Name of contact person.
-contact    "Volodymyr M. Lisivka"
+contact    "GNU libc maintainers"
 %Electronic address of organization or contact person.
-email      "v_lisivka@sourceforge.net"
+email      "bug-glibc@gnu.org"
 %Telephone number of organization in international format.
 tel        ""
 %Fax number of organization in international format.
 fax        ""
 %Code of language, to which this document applies.
-language   "uk"
+language   "Ukrainian"
 %Code of country/geographic extent (ISO 3166), to which this document applies.
-territory  "UA"
+territory  "Ukraine"
 %Intended user audience.
 audience   "general"
 %If for use with special application, a description of this application.
-application "GNU glibc"
+application "general"
 %Short name.
 abbreviation "ULU-2.1.1"
 %Revision (numbers and dots).
@@ -37,18 +49,18 @@
 %Revision date
 date       "2003-05-20"
 
-category  "il18n:2000";LC_IDENTIFICATION
-category  "il18n:2000";LC_CTYPE
-category  "il18n:2000";LC_COLLATE
-category  "il18n:2000";LC_TIME
+category  "uk_UA:2000";LC_IDENTIFICATION
+category  "uk_UA:2000";LC_CTYPE
+category  "uk_UA:2000";LC_COLLATE
+category  "uk_UA:2000";LC_TIME
 category  "posix:1993";LC_NUMERIC
-category  "il18n:2000";LC_MONETARY
-category  "il18n:2000";LC_MESSAGES
-category  "il18n:2000";LC_PAPER
-category  "il18n:2000";LC_NAME
-category  "il18n:2000";LC_ADDRESS
-category  "il18n:2000";LC_TELEPHONE
-category  "il18n:2000";LC_MEASUREMENT
+category  "uk_UA:2000";LC_MONETARY
+category  "uk_UA:2000";LC_MESSAGES
+category  "uk_UA:2000";LC_PAPER
+category  "uk_UA:2000";LC_NAME
+category  "uk_UA:2000";LC_ADDRESS
+category  "uk_UA:2000";LC_TELEPHONE
+category  "uk_UA:2000";LC_MEASUREMENT
 
 END LC_IDENTIFICATION
 
@@ -483,7 +495,37 @@
 
 
 
-LC_MONETARY 
+LC_MESSAGES
+
+%WARNING: Symbols Y and Cyrillic_N placed on one key on Ukrainian keyboards
+%but mean different responses.
+%
+%Use key T or Cyrillic_Z(Zhoda) or Cyrillic_GHE(Harazd) to be sure always.
+%Use '+' or '1' if You doubt.
+
+%a regular expression that describes possible yes-responses
+yesexpr "^[<U0422><U0442><U0417><U0437><U0413><U0433>TtYy1+].*"
+
+%WARNING: Symbols N and Cyrillic_T placed on one key on Ukrainian keyboards
+%but mean different responses.
+%
+%Use key H or Cyrillic_V (Vidmova) to be sure always.
+%Use '-' or '0' if You doubt.
+
+%A regular expression that describes possible no-responses.
+noexpr  "^[<U041D><U043D><U0412><U0432>HhNn0-].*"
+
+%Output string for ``yes''.
+yesstr "<U0442><U0430><U043A>" % tak
+
+%Output string for ``no''.
+nostr "<U043D><U0456>"   % ni
+
+END LC_MESSAGES
+
+
+
+LC_MONETARY
 
 %Examples:
 %
@@ -870,36 +912,6 @@
 
 
 
-LC_MESSAGES
-
-%WARNING: Symbols Y and Cyrillic_N placed on one key on Ukrainian keyboards
-%but mean different responses.
-%
-%Use key T or Cyrillic_Z(Zhoda) or Cyrillic_GHE(Harazd) to be sure always.
-%Use '+' or '1' if You doubt.
-
-%a regular expression that describes possible yes-responses
-yesexpr "^[<U0422><U0442><U0417><U0437><U0413><U0433>TtYy1+].*"
-
-%WARNING: Symbols N and Cyrillic_T placed on one key on Ukrainian keyboards
-%but mean different responses.
-%
-%Use key H or Cyrillic_V (Vidmova) to be sure always.
-%Use '-' or '0' if You doubt.
-
-%A regular expression that describes possible no-responses.
-noexpr  "^[<U041D><U043D><U0412><U0432>HhNn0-].*"
-
-%Output string for ``yes''.
-yesstr "<U0442><U0430><U043A>" % tak
-
-%Output string for ``no''.
-nostr "<U043D><U0456>"   % ni
-
-END LC_MESSAGES
-
-
-
 LC_PAPER
 % Default paper: A4
 height   297 % in millimeters
@@ -936,6 +948,15 @@
 
 
 
+LC_MEASUREMENT
+% 1 - ISO 1000
+% 2 - U.S.A.
+% 3 - other
+measurement    1
+END LC_MEASUREMENT
+
+
+
 LC_NAME
 %Examples:
 % Full name: pan Volodymyr Mykolayovych Lisivka
@@ -1135,12 +1156,3 @@
 %lang_ab3_lib  "ukr" % ISO/IEC 14652:2002
 
 END LC_ADDRESS
-
-
-
-LC_MEASUREMENT
-% 1 - ISO 1000
-% 2 - U.S.A.
-% 3 - other
-measurement    1
-END LC_MEASUREMENT