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Re: Incorrect days of the week in ru_UA locale


>Since the solution is controversial I would like to hear
>feedback from Mikhail and/or Keld (CC).  This patch does not
>determine whether lower or uppercase is correct, just says
>that ru_RU and ru_UA should be the same.

Just use the same representation for abday as in ru_RU as it is (the
first letter is large, the rest is small). It is correct.

I want ru_UA locale to inherit all translations from ru_RU (months,
days of the week, etc.) excluding government data (currency sign,
phone number, etc.). So that there is no such thing that the days of
the week in these locales are written differently (like now). They use
the same language, therefore the translation must be the same.

My native language is Russian and Ukrainian, I'm not a linguist, so
I’ll only express my point of view. Abbreviations for days of the week
(two letters) and month (three letters) in Russian and Ukrainian in
everyday life is always written with a first capital letter ("Пн",
"Вт"). But if this is due to some limitations - then use small letters
(but it is wrong). It’s easier for me, as an end user, to correct
format string in app than to correct a translation every time.

>You replied to me off-list.  I don't mind this but was this intentional?

My mistake, I use the web version of gmail, maybe pressed the wrong button.

ср, 2 окт. 2019 г. в 10:33, Mikhail Gribanov <mikhail.gribanov@gmail.com>:
>
> >Since the solution is controversial I would like to hear
> >feedback from Mikhail and/or Keld (CC).  This patch does not
> >determine whether lower or uppercase is correct, just says
> >that ru_RU and ru_UA should be the same.
>
> Just use the same representation for abday as in ru_RU as it is (the
> first letter is large, the rest is small). It is correct.
>
> I want ru_UA locale to inherit all translations from ru_RU (months,
> days of the week, etc.) excluding government data (currency sign,
> phone number, etc.). So that there is no such thing that the days of
> the week in these locales are written differently (like now). They use
> the same language, therefore the translation must be the same.
>
> My native language is Russian and Ukrainian, I'm not a linguist, so
> I’ll only express my point of view. Abbreviations for days of the week
> (two letters) and month (three letters) in Russian and Ukrainian in
> everyday life is always written with a first capital letter ("Пн",
> "Вт"). But if this is due to some limitations - then use small letters
> (but it is wrong). It’s easier for me, as an end user, to correct
> format string in app than to correct a translation every time.
>
> >You replied to me off-list.  I don't mind this but was this intentional?
>
> My mistake, I use the web version of gmail, maybe pressed the wrong button.
>
> вт, 1 окт. 2019 г. в 23:54, Keld Simonsen <keld@keldix.com>:
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 01, 2019 at 09:45:13PM +0200, Rafal Luzynski wrote:
> > > 28.09.2019 19:37 Keld Simonsen <keld@keldix.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I think we should use lowercase that is what we do with manuyothe european
> > > > locales
> > > > and it is the culturally correct form
> > > >
> > > > keld
> > >
> > > Thank you for your feedback, Keld.  Unfortunately, as a native speaker
> > > of one of those languages I must say that this is more complex.
> > > Indeed, names of the weeks and months are usually lowercase but
> > > when they appear in the beginning of a sentence they are uppercase.
> > > I am afraid that a name of a weekday more often appears in the beginning
> > > of the sentence than in the middle.  To the extent that some locales
> > > prefer the weekday and/or month names to start with the uppercase.
> >
> > I am also a native speaker of one of those languages, Danish, and moreover I was the initial contributer of about 60 of the locales incl ru_RU,
> > that Urich Drepper picked up for glibc. I am also the editor of ISO 14652 and ISO 30112 that provided extensions
> > beyond Posix i18n functionality, and I  provide guidance for their use. My advice is that this bad policy to have wrongly
> > capitalized names here.
> >
> > > What we actually need is a new format modifier to control the first
> > > letter being uppercase/lowercase.  Currently we have only "^" to convert
> > > whole substring (e.g., a weekday name) to uppercase, and "#" to swap
> > > the upper/lowercase.  It was discussed in the past, there is a bug
> > > report and a proposal to ensure that "^#" works as a converter to
> > > lowercase but this is not enough because I would like to see one more
> > > format modifier to convert to titlecase (that is: the first letter
> > > being uppercase).  I would be happy to work on that problem but
> > > it is a separate case and would need more discussion.
> >
> > I agree with you, and it has been my plan as editor of ISO 30112 to add functionality along the lines that you suggest,
> > without having a firm propoal.
> >
> > > Back about the main problem, I would like to post a patch which would
> > > be the best explanation what I mean in this particular case.
> >
> > What would it say?
> >
> > keld


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