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Re: New kernel interface for sys_tz and timewarp?
- From: Alexandre Belloni <alexandre dot belloni at bootlin dot com>
- To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds at linux-foundation dot org>
- Cc: Arnd Bergmann <arnd at arndb dot de>, Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel at vger dot kernel dot org>, Thomas Gleixner <tglx at linutronix dot de>, John Stultz <john dot stultz at linaro dot org>, Stephen Boyd <sboyd at kernel dot org>, Florian Weimer <fweimer at redhat dot com>, Theodore Ts'o <tytso at mit dot edu>, "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa at zytor dot com>, Palmer Dabbelt <palmer at dabbelt dot com>, Alistair Francis <alistair dot francis at wdc dot com>, GNU C Library <libc-alpha at sourceware dot org>, Karel Zak <kzak at redhat dot com>, Lennart Poettering <lennart at poettering dot net>, OGAWA Hirofumi <hirofumi at mail dot parknet dot co dot jp>
- Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 23:56:15 +0200
- Subject: Re: New kernel interface for sys_tz and timewarp?
- References: <CAK8P3a0VxM1BkjY1D2FfHi6L-ho_NH3v3+gBu45EfpjLF5NU5w@mail.gmail.com> <CAHk-=wiO2CWONDBud4nxoPgUJN1JEewFWhHa5wAqY8G5rrTXRQ@mail.gmail.com>
On 13/08/2019 10:30:34-0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:06 AM Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de> wrote:
> >
> > * Should we allow setting the sys_tz on new architectures that use only
> > time64 interfaces at all, or should we try to get away from that anyway?
>
> We should not do TZ on a kernel level at all. At least not a global
> one. It makes no sense.
>
> If the original TZ had been defined to have some sane model (perhaps
> per session? Something like that), it would be worth doing. As it is,
> a global TZ is just plain wrong. Per process would be sane (but
> largely useless, I suspect).
>
> > * Should the NTP timewarp setting ("int persistent_clock_is_local" and
> > its offset) be controllable separately from the timezone used in other
> > drivers?
> >
> > * If we want keep having a way to set the sys_tz, what interface
> > should that use?
>
> I suspect we need to have _some_ way to set the kernel TZ for legacy
> reasons, but it should be deprecated and if we can make do without it
> entirely on architectures where the legacy doesn't make sense, then
> all the better.
>
> I suspect the only actual _valid_ use in the kernel for a time zone
> setting is likely for RTC clock setting, but even that isn't really
> "global", as much as "per RTC".
>
Userspace doesn't need help from the kernel to set the RTC using local
time if necessary, this info is in /etc/adjtime and hwclock uses it
correctly. It is only needed when the kernel sets the rtc time
> That said, if glibc has some sane semantics for TZ, maybe the kernel
> can help with that. But I assume/think that glibc uses (a) environment
> variables and (b) a filesystem-set default (per-user file with a
> system-wide default? I don't know what people do). I suspect the
> kernel can't really do any better.
>
> Linus
--
Alexandre Belloni, Bootlin
Embedded Linux and Kernel engineering
https://bootlin.com