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Re: Lousy setup program defeats users with disabilites.
- From: Charles Wilson <cwilson at ece dot gatech dot edu>
- To: Garrett Serack <gserack at experientia dot org>
- Cc: cygwin at cygwin dot com
- Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 13:13:02 -0400
- Subject: Re: Lousy setup program defeats users with disabilites.
- References: <3D0F44E2.email@example.com>
Garrett Serack wrote:
I just recently downloaded the most recent version of this
discriminating peice of software,
Yes, we hate people with disabilities and deliberately tried to make
things harder for them. Sheesh.
The core classes necessary for *command-line* operation of setup.exe are
already there. The problem is, nobody has USED those classes to
implement all of the required options/flags/switches to completely
duplicate the functionality of the GUI. But we will get there.
Right now, the setup developers are desperately trying to fix setup so
that it doesn't crash/hang/go-boom on certain platforms. (Again, this
error is because we have determined that people with disabilities
disproportionately use those platforms, so we deliberately broke it on
those. We know that this might inconvenience non-differently-abled
users as well as differently-abled ones -- but you just can't make an
omelette without breaking a few eggs.)
Okay, even *I* am tired of my own sarcasm now. I promise to stop being
sarcastic, if you'll promise to take the chip off your shoulder, Garrett.
Some of the column headers are unreadable, and require the user to
resize them in order to read what they say.
This is a new bug...are you using really large fonts?
I find the use of this setup program deplorable. Not only does it cleary
disciminate against users with disabilities, it tends to speak volumes
about the state of Open source software.
I keep checking to see if these deficiencies are ever addressed, but
every time I check, the damn installer gets harder and harder to use.
In one respect, yes: the "chooser" pane is now the same size as all the
other panes -- previously it was bigger. This makes it harder to see
all the information. However, this was a necessary step toward making
ALL of the panes resizable...which is good for everybody. (We're in the
one-step-backward phase before the two-steps forward)
You're not the only person who wants this.
In the past, the default was to install everything, much to the
irritation of many users. Now the default is to install only a basic
core of packages. At the moment, there is no easy way to get everything.
In the current version of Cygwin Setup, if you want everything, you must
do the following:
1. When the Cygwin Setup says "Select packages to install", click on
the "View" button until it says "Full".
2. Wherever it says "Skip", click twice until it gives the version
number of the package. That means it will be downloaded and
Thanks for not quoting the last line of that FAQ:
"This should become much easier in a future version of Cygwin Setup."
Gee, I like to click twice for every single package. Makes me *soooooo*
Yes, we did it just to please you. </oops, sorry, sarcasm slipped out>
Now, granted if you read enough dribble
Patches to the webpage gratefully accepted. If you consider the current
text dribble, please send in better text.
on the Cygwin.com homepage ,
you'll find the sentance:
For instance, clicking on the "All" category will provide you with the
opportunity to install every Cygwin package.
Which when I tried clicking on "all", simply opened and closed the tree.
Turns out that you need to click on the goofy icon (which is a VERY
small target) or the word beside it. In this case "Default". Hardly
clicking on "All". Now, the large pause between clicking on it when it
is set to "Default" makes me think that I missed the click, therefore I
need to click again. It then SKIPS over "Install", settling on
"Reinstall". Clicking once more quickly sets it all to "Uninstall", and
once more sets it quickly to "Default". Funny, without trying for many
minutes, I never found the "Install" option.
Unfortunately, setup.exe is a fast moving target. The documentation
lags. Sorry about that. We'll try to slow down development on
setup.exe so that the documentation can catch up. </darn, there I went
again with the sarcasm...>
All in all, this installer, while beatifully allowing users to
individually select packages to conserve download space (a VERY laudable
goal, as space and speed are limited for many) it fails to deliver that
feature for those who have limited physical functionality.
Now, I realize that this has been quite a rant. I work with people who
have limited abilities with their hands, but can often be quite
brilliant otherwise. I encourage them to work problems out for
themselves, and I hate to see these types of things causing them to give
up on Open source tools due to the hurdles involved.
On a tangental note, software that fails to meet the needs of disabled
people can be disallowed from working in some government institutions,
by law. Again, the last thing the Open source community needs, is to be
ripped from some of the very people it needs to help the most.
Not entirely true. First, you're talking about the Americans with
Disabilities Act, which (obviously) only applies in the US. Second,
government software *VENDORS* (defined as those who provide software to
the US government in exchange for $$$) are prohibited from bidding on
contracts to provide software, unless they insure that the software they
will provide is ADA-friendly.
This doesn't apply to free (gratis) software like cygwin -- unless Red
Hat wanted to sell it to the government for $$$ under a contract. Which
is not to say that we shouldn't do a better job at accommodating
disabled users. We should. But don't use FUD to advance your point.
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