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Re: [docbook-apps] Entity ’ becomes wrong character


[David, I hope you don't mind my cc-ing you on this as it relates
to the draft revision of ISO TR 9573.]

At 15:44 2003 10 08 -0700, Bob Stayton wrote:
>On Thu, Oct 09, 2003 at 12:00:02AM +0200, Oliver Fischer wrote:
>> Hello list,
>> 
>> I assume that I found a small bug in the stylesheets. Maybe the bug 
>> isn't in the stylesheets but in the DTD. I don't know.
>> 
>> If I use the entity ’ within my documents, I get always the wrong 
>> character. Since I don't know the proper english (and german) name for 
>> it, I put an example online:
>> 
>> http://www.xshare.com/fehler.html
>> 
>> It would be nice, if someone could have a  look at it.
>
>I think this is a bug in the DTD.  The ’ entity
>should map to ’ not ‘ as it currently does
>in the DTD.  The same with ” which should map to
>” but instead maps to #&x201C; in the DTD. 
>
>I have to admit that the ISO entity descriptions aren't
>all that clear.  What exactly does the "rising" in
>"rising single quote, right (high)" mean?
>The "high" gives the position, so does "rising"
>refer to whether it is a 6 or 9 shape?

One problem is that the entity names, e.g., rsquor, aren't
always easily matched to Unicode names.

At [1], I see:
 ldquo  ISOnum 0x201C # LEFT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
 ldquor ISOpub 0x201E # DOUBLE LOW-9 QUOTATION MARK
 lsquo  ISOnum 0x2018 # LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
 lsquor ISOpub 0x201A # SINGLE LOW-9 QUOTATION MARK
 rdquo  ISOnum 0x201D # RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
 rdquor ISOpub 0x201C # LEFT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK
 rsquo  ISOnum 0x2019 # RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
 rsquor ISOpub 0x2018 # LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
but it seems clear that there is something wrong here.

At [2], one reads:
 2018 left single quotation mark--looks like a 6
 2019 right single quotation mark--looks like a 9
 201C left double quotation mark--looks like a 66
 201D right double quotation mark--looks like a 99
and
 201B single high reversed-9 quotation mark--looks like a reversed 9
 201F double high reversed-9 quotation mark--looks like a reversed 99
(where "reversed" means mirror image or reflected about the vertical axis)
and
 201A single low-9 quotation mark--looks like 9 down at the baseline
    (so it pretty much looks like a comma)
 201E double low-9 quotation mark--looks like 99 down at the baseline
    (so it almost looks like two commas close together)

The latest entities at [3] and the draft revision of ISO 9573 at [4] 
agrees with the above, but that's not too surprising since David, Norm, 
and I worked together on this, and I don't remember revisiting these 
quotes, so we might have missed something.

I wonder where "rising" comes from in the iso-pub file?  I wonder
if the "r" at the end of these really means "reversed" in the case
of the right quotes?  I wonder what the 'r' means at the end of
the left quotes, since there are neither reversed nor rising
left quotes and, in fact, the iso-pub comment says they are
"rising, low-9" quotes.  I wonder if the answers to such questions 
will ever really be known or lost in time (somewhere around 1985 
when this stuff was originally done)?

My best guess is that the correct mappings are as follows:

 ldquo  ISOnum 0x201C # LEFT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK  [correct now]
 ldquor ISOpub 0x201E # DOUBLE LOW-9 QUOTATION MARK  [correct now]
 lsquo  ISOnum 0x2018 # LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK  [correct now]
 lsquor ISOpub 0x201A # SINGLE LOW-9 QUOTATION MARK  [correct now]
 rdquo  ISOnum 0x201D # RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK  [correct now]
 rdquor ISOpub 0x201F # double high reversed-9 quotation mark  [needs fixing]
 rsquo  ISOnum 0x2019 # RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK  [correct now]
 rsquor ISOpub 0x201B # single high reversed-9 quotation mark  [needs fixing]

but I could be wrong.  Input from others who can substantiate the
correct mapping would be appreciated.

paul

[1] http://www.unicode.org/Public/MAPPINGS/VENDORS/MISC/SGML.TXT
[2] http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U2000.pdf
[3] http://www.w3.org/2003/entities/
[4] http://www.w3.org/2003/entities/iso9573-2003doc/9573.html



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