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Hi all. In pt_BR, the glibc doesn't count spaces in the sort order. An example: That list: GABRIELA HELEDA DE SOUZA GABRIEL ALCIDES KLIM PERONDI GABRIELA LETICIA BATISTA NUNES GABRIELA JACOBY NOS GABRIEL ALEXANDRE DA SILVA MANICA GÁBRIEL ALCIDES KLIM PERONDI GÁBRIELA JACOBY NOS But the right order is: GABRIEL ALCIDES KLIM PERONDI GÁBRIEL ALCIDES KLIM PERONDI GABRIEL ALEXANDRE DA SILVA MANICA GABRIELA HELEDA DE SOUZA GABRIELA JACOBY NOS GÁBRIELA JACOBY NOS GABRIELA LETICIA BATISTA NUNES I find that I can change that on /usr/share/i18n/locales, adding: reorder-after <U00A0> <U0020><CAP>;<CAP>;<CAP>;<U0020> reorder-end in the session LC_COLLATE. After generate the locale again, I have the right sort order.
When use "sort" command, it's the wrong sorted list: ~$ sort list.txt GABRIELA HELEDA DE SOUZA GABRIELA JACOBY NOS GÁBRIELA JACOBY NOS GABRIEL ALCIDES KLIM PERONDI GÁBRIEL ALCIDES KLIM PERONDI GABRIELA LETICIA BATISTA NUNES GABRIEL ALEXANDRE DA SILVA MANICA Tested in ubuntu 6.06, fedora core 3, red hat 9 and openSUSE 10.2 (all i386), with the same wrong sort order.
Can you provide any references specifying that space should be handled as a letter when soring in brazilian portugese? Because if not, I suspect you are mistaken when you believe space should be sorted that way.
(In reply to comment #2) > Can you provide any references specifying that space should be handled > as a letter when soring in brazilian portugese? Because if not, I suspect > you are mistaken when you believe space should be sorted that way. The rules are defined by ABNT (Assoaciação Brasileira de Normas e Técnicas) in a paper called NBR 6033, but the document isn't public available. But, as me and edurbs are native speakers, I think that you should believe us :D []'s - Walter
Subject: Re: sort order on pt_BR On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 04:23:22PM -0000, pere at hungry dot com wrote: > > ------- Additional Comments From pere at hungry dot com 2007-01-30 16:23 ------- > Can you provide any references specifying that space should be handled > as a letter when soring in brazilian portugese? Because if not, I suspect > you are mistaken when you believe space should be sorted that way. In most languages using a script with letters, you have two ordering schemes, the standard one, and the word-by-word one. In the latter, space is significant on the first level. So both are correct, culturally. I don't know how we can have an easy way to have both schemes available to the user, except we provide two locales, with a small delta (replace-after) to make the word-by-word locale. And then a general naming scheme so the user can chose easily, like the @euro variants. best regards Keld
(In reply to comment #0) > I find that I can change that on /usr/share/i18n/locales, adding: > > reorder-after <U00A0> > <U0020><CAP>;<CAP>;<CAP>;<U0020> > reorder-end > > in the session LC_COLLATE. After generate the locale again, I have the right > sort order. It didn't worked with Fedora 5. After changing settings on pt_BR file, and run the following command, still having the same problem... localedef -i pt_BR -c -f ISO-8859-1 -A /usr/share/locale/locale.alias pt_BR Did I make something wrong? Kind regards...
(In reply to comment #5) > Did I make something wrong? Yes, I did. I put a space between <U0020> and <CAP>. But it is still ordering in a strange behavior; 'a' and 'á' and 'ã' and 'à' are the same characters. It is ordering like it were different. Sorry...
Hi Daniel How is it ordering ? I make tests and the behavior with and without the proposed change is the same when ordering this characters. May be this an another bug ? (In reply to comment #6) > (In reply to comment #5) > > Did I make something wrong? > > Yes, I did. I put a space between <U0020> and <CAP>. > > But it is still ordering in a strange behavior; 'a' and 'á' and 'ã' and 'à' are > the same characters. It is ordering like it were different. > > Sorry... >
(In reply to comment #0) > Hi all. > > In pt_BR, the glibc doesn't count spaces in the sort order. FWIW fr_FR is hit as well, and many other locales are too. cat a; echo "==========="; LC_ALL=fr_FR sort a GABRIELA HELEDA DE SOUZA GABRIEL ALCIDES KLIM PERONDI GABRIELA LETICIA BATISTA NUNES GABRIELA JACOBY NOS GABRIEL ALEXANDRE DA SILVA MANICA GÁBRIEL ALCIDES KLIM PERONDI GÁBRIELA JACOBY NOS =========== GABRIELA HELEDA DE SOUZA GABRIELA JACOBY NOS GÁBRIELA JACOBY NOS GABRIEL ALCIDES KLIM PERONDI GÁBRIEL ALCIDES KLIM PERONDI GABRIELA LETICIA BATISTA NUNES GABRIEL ALEXANDRE DA SILVA MANICA > I find that I can change that on /usr/share/i18n/locales, adding: > > reorder-after <U00A0> > <U0020><CAP>;<CAP>;<CAP>;<U0020> > reorder-end > > in the session LC_COLLATE. After generate the locale again, I have the right > sort order.
Petter, I can assure you that the proposed one is the behaviour any Brazilian would expect since the age of 6, when they learn how to sort at school, right after learning the alphabet. If it is *really* necessary, I can pay for web access to the already mentioned lousy 5-page document from ABNT which defines the technical norm for sorting just to show you, but you may guess I'm not eager to :)
Hi, everybody. First of all i apologize for my poor writing skills. English is not my native language. pt_BR sort order seems odd to me. If this behavior is not a bug, i agree with Keld's suggestion: To define a new locale, like pt_BR@abnt, using the "right" sort order. Can the reorder sample sentence handle lower and uppercase properly? The result of a sort, without the suggested change in the locale definition file, can't: LC_ALL=pt_BR LANG=pt_BR LANGUAGE=pt_BR sort a.txt gabriela heleda de souza GABRIELA HELEDA DE SOUZA gabriela jacoby nos GABRIELA JACOBY NOS gábriela jacoby nos GÁBRIELA JACOBY NOS gabriel alcides klim perondi GABRIEL ALCIDES KLIM PERONDI gábriel alcides klim perondi GÁBRIEL ALCIDES KLIM PERONDI gabriela leticia batista nunes GABRIELA LETICIA BATISTA NUNES gabriel alexandre da silva manica GABRIEL ALEXANDRE DA SILVA MANICA The expected output: gabriel alcides klim perondi gábriel alcides klim perondi gabriel alexandre da silva manica gabriela heleda de souza gabriela leticia batista nunes gabriela jacoby nos gábriela jacoby nos GABRIEL ALCIDES KLIM PERONDI GÁBRIEL ALCIDES KLIM PERONDI GABRIEL ALEXANDRE DA SILVA MANICA GABRIELA HELEDA DE SOUZA GABRIELA LETICIA BATISTA NUNES GABRIELA JACOBY NOS GÁBRIELA JACOBY NOS This is "tricky" because we don't just perform a lexicographically comparison of each character (a Portuguese Java user will be happy to know that String.compareTo is not enough to produce the sorted result that he expect, for several reasons). We first sort ignoring accented letters, then we use them as a "tiebreaker/disambiguation criteria" (i don't know the correct term in English) between equal full names. In the first step, a = á, but in the later step, a < á. Well, that is all i know. I will try to get a copy of the Norma NBR 6033:1989 (NB 106) from ABNT to confirm (or not :-)) these examples. Thanks.
And i don't know if the Norma is "case sensitive" or "case insensitive".
Subject: Re: sort order on pt_BR On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 02:25:55PM -0000, email_daniel_h at yahoo dot com dot br wrote: > > ------- Additional Comments From email_daniel_h at yahoo dot com dot br 2010-06-27 14:25 ------- > And i don't know if the Norma is "case sensitive" or "case insensitive". All the European language sorting standards I know of are case insensitive on the first level, case only counts on the 3rd level. I expect this also to be true for Portuguese. That is: most important distinction is base letter, second is accent, third is case. best regards keld
For those interested in an workaround, for a CentOS 5.5 box (use at your own risk): 1. Copy the base locale definition file cp /usr/share/i18n/locales/pt_BR pt_BR\@abnt\.src 2. Edit pt_BR@abnt.src and add reorder-after <U00A0> <U0020><CAP>;<CAP>;<CAP>;<U0020> reorder-end before END LC_COLLATE 3. Create new directories mkdir /usr/lib/locale/pt_BR\@abnt mkdir /usr/lib/locale/pt_BR\.utf8\@abnt 4. Compile the new locales localedef --verbose -c -i pt_BR\@abnt.src -f ISO-8859-1 /usr/lib/locale/pt_BR\@abnt localedef --verbose -c -i pt_BR\@abnt.src -f UTF-8 /usr/lib/locale/pt_BR\.utf8\@abnt 5. Check the new locales locale -a | grep pt_BR I don't know if this is the best way, but it is one way. Maybe the directories can be different in other Linux distributions. I think that will be better to create a new pt_BR@abnt.src with a "copy statement" for each section inside it than to copy the whole source from /usr/share/i18n/locales/pt_BR
(In reply to http://sources.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3405#c12) Thanks, Keld.